The Devin Townsend Project

The Gauntlet: How is everything in Canada?

Devin: Just watching some TV and going to rehearsals later tonight.

The Gauntlet: Rehearsal's for the tour?

Devin: That's right. We are starting January 5th with Between the Buried and Me and Cynic.

The Gauntlet: You are using different musicians for each of the four albums. Which carnation of the band goes out on the road with you?

Devin: It is kind of a shit mix in all honesty. The nature of this four record project is not to be a definition of what I am hoping to achieve in my music career, but more of an overview to prepare not only myself but also my audience on what I hope to do in the future. Bu nature of that is what I have done with these four records is include different musicians for each one. Each record has a specific identity and as a result of that, the people who are chosen for each are congruent to that energy that is needed for the record. When it comes to live, I think there is also an element in trepidation for me as it has been years since I have been touring. My personal life has changed dramatically since the last time I have toured. When I considered putting the band together, among the top priorities for me was something that would sustain itself. I wanted a group of individuals that would be able to participate with each other without constant input from me on the personal side of it. I want to be able to carry on with my world and do my thing and know the band is getting along and interacting in a way that is self contained. What i did was choose people along those guidelines, people that I had a good personal relationship with. I also needed about 15 albums of varied material to be represented accurately. I got Brian who played on "Addicted!", Dave who played keyboard in Devin Townsend Band. He is more than a keyboard player, just an all around great guy. Rehearsal's have been going really well. I really want to get out there, but a part of me is nervous as this will be the first time going out there completely honest, sober and without the mask. A lot of it is just jumping into the abyss. I realize that the way things are with the economy, you have to make yourself available to those that support you. Part of the process is getting over my fear of people. I am not terrified of people, but I am just not a social person. Everyone has fear, but fortune rewards the brave.

The Gauntlet: I have been listening to the new album "Addicted" all week and I was a bit taken back at first. It wasn't what I was expecting, but it grew on me.

Devin: There is an element that the audience has a need to categorize an artist into genres and sub-genres. I think that the nature of what I do has always been a cathartic reflection of whatever my current personal life or emotional state of mind represents. On some levels, I have felt awkward about that in the past but you play the cards you are dealt. If that is your creative process, then you just do that. The nature of every record is going to be different as it is going to be a reaction to the one before. Addicted is a reaction in part to the reaction of "Ki." I guess the nature of what this four record project is supposed to represent is four very distinct personalities as a whole that are supposed to summarize that I can do a lot of things. My mood dictates the direction this will go. With "Ki" a lot of people felt it lacked that typical Devin Townsend thing whatever that is. So with Addicted, there is a bit of that. Still with that, there are people that are attached to Strapping Young Lad that think it will miss that visceral and psychotic element, but there are still two more records. What you don't get from this one you may get from the next one. Everything I do, as arrogant as this may sound, I am completely satisfied with. Addicted was exactly what I wanted to do and so was Ki.

The Gauntlet: I wasn't expecting Addicted to be a SYL album, but I was expecting it to be what you told fans to expect, a pop album.

Devin: This is about as pop as I am capable of. I think there is this perception thing as well. The rhetoric I throw out in forums and in interviews is sometime my process. I did a record called "Accelerated Evolution" a few years back and was selling it to the label and told them it was a pop album. They thought cool and set up the marketing around a Devin Townsend pop album. When they got it, they felt it was pretty far from pop. To me it was as pop as I am capable of. With Addicted, my version of pop is maybe less or a literal definition of it. There is an ease to Addicted that wasn't in Strapping [Young Lad]. To me, Addicted is the most immediate record that I have produced. Maybe wrongfully, but I equate that to pop. There you go, here is my pop record.

The Gauntlet: To me it is more classically done than pop. Anneke's vocal's are perfect on this album.

Devin: Oh yeah, she is a siren.

The Gauntlet: This album seems a little better suited to her than The Gathering. I often felt she was sort of plugged into that band as an afterthought and vocally didn't reach her full potential.

Devin: There are kind of like these fate versus free will things that happens with lots of folks. I will take the fifth on that. I think it is somewhere between the both. As far as fate goes, my meeting with her was such a cool coincidence. I always enjoyed that dichotomy between male and female vocals. I tried to make it a little less than a surface thing to not turn people off immediately, but part of it is like addiction to whatever; your ego, whatever. It has never been gender specific. Having that dichotomy was important, not only on "Addicted" but also Ki. Anneke sent me an email like two weeks before I was going to record the vocals. I knew I wanted a strong female presence. I woke up one morning and there was an email with her singing my vocals better than I did. I was just like 'that makes a lot of sense.' I was very into The Gathering, specifically "Mandylion". It was a real thrill for me that someone that I had so much respect for offered something vocally that I am not capable of was interested in participating. I said to her why don't you come to Vancouver next week. I told her to participate as much or as little as she wanted on "Addicted" and in return I would help her write her record. She came out and we got along well. She is in similar age as me and we have had similar experiences with Century Media and she has a child. There were a lot of parallels that not only helped artistically but also on other levels with what I wanted for "Addicted" and I couldn't be happier.

The Gauntlet: I assumed these songs were written for her as they just capture her voice so well.

Devin: She is one of those singers that can sing the phone book. I wrote "Addicted" with the mindset that there was a certain element for the songs. In all honesty, on a lot of songs that she ended up singing on, they were originally going to be with me singing the parts. When she came to the studio, I was just really interested in singing these incredibly high vocal parts. As soon as she starts singing them, it's like oh 'wow!' She was not only open to it but also gracious about it. She enjoys the music and we had a good meeting of the minds. Again, it is like I don't subscribe to fate, but as far as I do subscribe, this was one of those instances.

The Gauntlet: "Ki" had female vocals also, will the final two albums also have the male/female thing going?

Devin: "Deconstruction" is an entirely different beast. With "Addicted," I wanted equal male and female parts. With "Ki" I wanted female parts to punctuate it. "Deconstruction" is a hard one to describe. The more I do, it just sounds like a journey up my own ass in a lot of ways. The bottom line with it is it is a very complicated and interesting record with a lot of dynamics and music that is very heavy even for me. It is a really heavy and complicated record but not a typical metal record. It is more of a symphonic type of thing I am trying to do, whether I succeed someone else will have to judge. I want to include a lot of different musicians in the metal genre that can do the vocals that I am not good at, like death metal vocals. When I do death metal vocals, I sound like Super Grover. Having those type of people do it is the same as having Anneke on Addicted.

The Gauntlet: I think that is why everything on "Addicted" works. You didn't add female vocals because it will sell a few more albums, you used her because there was an underlying need.

Devin: That plays into the concept of "Addicted." Society gets hung up on a lot of things right? One of the things that everyone was really taken back by was how pornography becomes like a crack cocaine. It is so easily accessible with the internet. In a lot of ways, it does a disservice. I am not trying to come across as a sensitive liberated cat. You have good men, bad men, good women, and bad women. Essentially everyone is trying to get the same thing out of life; to feel good. A lot of time I see a female vocalist in music, I see the token female in music. She has a lot of makeup on and plays the bass or keyboards or something. I am not painting them all with the same brush as there are some excellent female bass players and keyboardists. What I was interested in with "Addicted" was two strong humans; one that offers something that the other can't. It is like a man and woman relationship. There are reasons men and women are together sex aside, they offer things the others need. There is a metaphor for that with "Addicted," the strong female not trying to be a male but a sense of strength. My voice is incapable of producing some parts and so having Anneke on the record was needed. Even from the concept, I did not want a token female. In every bit, she is much better of a singer than I am. So you get both sides to the equation, here is a man singing about the same ideas.

The Gauntlet: On the tour, who will handle the female vocals?

Devin: Until the record sells, the backing track [laughs]. This first tour for me is just me getting my feet wet. There are financial implications with bringing Anneke over. This first tour is to see whether after a few years I am still viable as a product and artist and if people are going to support that. If it does sell and the tour is enough of a success to afford it, then we'd love to bring her along. In this beginning stage, I have to tread softly and just see what happens. We have a short set so there won't be a lot of parts from "Addicted." It won't be a disservice to the music by not having her. My whole plan musically is to have a lot of performers on stage other than myself and we can make the whole thing a big production. But for the first tour, we will do a couple of Addicted songs and I am trying to go with songs that have her more in the background so it isn't noticeable. As you know it is expensive.

The Gauntlet: As long as it isn't yourself or Brian doing her parts.

Devin: I tried that last night in the rehearsals and we ended up scrapping that song because I don't sound very good doing that song.

The Gauntlet: that is the stuff you need to post to Youtube.

Devin: I have a youtube account I keep updated with embarrassing stuff. It is like a buffer, if you beat everyone to the punch with insulting you, they have nothing to hit you with. I might have to tape a rehearsal and try that though.

The Gauntlet: The song "Hyperdrive" appears on "Addicted!" Were you not happy with it the first time?

Devin: I am absolutely happy with it. The thing is, Hyperdrive was written and was kind of the odd man out. The "Ziltoid the Omniscient" material was so specifically rooted in what it was with the signatures and arpeggio's. The thing that was kind of strange was "Hyperdrive" came out of all that and at the same time which is unusual. When I am writing a style I normally stay that style. I didn't know if I should include that song into the story but it worked really well. But there was always something in my head that made me want to present that song amongst other songs. The first thing that Anneke sent me in her email was a video of her singing "Hyperdrive". Up to that point, I didn't really consider it an option but characterized by the fact that I did what to hear it with other music and completely different, it seemed like a great opportunity to put it into play.

The Gauntlet: Is it a distrust of labels with you that has led you to avoid labels?

Devin: By 'avoiding labels' can you clarify that?

The Gauntlet: Generally bands have to get completely fucked by a label for them to start their own label but you have always been in control through your own HevyDevy Records.

Devin: I think that it is an important step to becoming an established musician. You gotta get that ass fucking over with early. Once you get that out of the way...it is like establishing your relationship with a girl. A lot of bands are in this fantasy. Once you get that fantasy out of the way, life gets a lot easier. I did the Steve Vai project when I was 19. My introduction to the music world was profoundly negative. How much of that was personal perception? The experience I had with [Steve] Vai has defined me in many ways and we are better friends now than we have ever been. I really reacted to him negatively in a lot of ways and made things difficult for him at the time because of my perception of the reality. My connection to the labels...you talk about me retaining the control, I have always been a control freak. That retaining the control has allowed me to make the music I do on some levels and on other levels it has not allowed me to progress. There is an element of jumping into the abyss that is needed for you to know whether you have got the balls to handle it. What I am trying to do now is jump into the abyss. I have never taken that plunge because I have been afraid of losing that control. Not the creative control, but that sense that everything is under my power. I think there are trust issues that go along with that as well. Now we are distributed by Century Media. I had a 15 year long relationship with them that was soured in a lot of ways by not only my perceptions from the Vai days, but also drugs; smoking a lot of weed and doing lots of acid. There are some people that are predisposed to mental instability and if you add drugs to that equation you get paranoid, aggressive and distrust issues. What this four album project chronicles is a period of personal growth in which I quit everything. I quit the drugs, quit the booze, quit the band, had a baby, moved, cut my hair off...a lot of things that typically are not elements in my personality that I would chose to engage in. Having it in a way forced upon me made me reevaluate my connection to labels. What I came to the conclusion of is that a lot of the things I was paranoid and afraid of are just reflections of my own insecurity. Now that I have a more clear head, I am able to compartmentalize things a little better and ask myself what I want to do with the rest of my life. I really enjoy making music and enjoy performing for people. The fact that I am able to eek out a living performing for people is a blessing. I have taken it fore granted for so long. All everyone is really trying to do is feed their family. So I went back to Century Media a couple months back and I sat down with them and realized that they are friends in a lot of ways and people I have known for years. Everyone is the same and trying to feed their families and express their creativity in some way. So I suggested we just play ball together and asked them what about me has been difficult in our relationship. Now with the labels that I am with, it is a new world in a lot of ways. Have I missed the boat? Who knows. I am able to make a living so I am satisfied while being able to make music. I am thrilled with Inside Out and Century Media. I am so honored that after 15 years, to some degree, people are willing to listen to what I have to say. I am thrilled that people will give my new album a listen or two. You have to recognize the people in your life you need to keep.

The Gauntlet: How are things now between you and Vai?

Devin: My relationship with Steve was so awkward for both of us in many ways. I was in L.A. recently and we got together. I have immense respect for him. There are elements of his creative process in my creative process. Sometimes people's life lessons require them to learn at a different pace. Whether those financial rewards ever come, it is basically a journey, and through that journey I realized that Steve Vai is one hell of a dude and a good friend. It has taken me 15 years to come to that and the things that I liked about him. The things I disliked about him were parallels in my own development.

The Gauntlet: Was the kicking of the drug habit the first step or the result of your new way of thinking?

Devin: I was never a heavy drug user. I never really did anything but weed. There is a notion that it is a benign drug, right? If you a predisposed to any mental issue that is genetically in your family or any type of weakness, it gets exacerbated by drugs. I have tons of friends that can drink with dinner and have a toke and are fine. With me, a little was never enough. I found myself so fascinated with marijuana and it became part of my process. As a result of that, out of necessity, I became so paranoid about what I was doing and saying that I needed to take it all apart and get to the root of it. It was disappointing as I had so many great times with weed and booze. As my paranoia went away, I realized that a lot of it was a direct result. What I found was I was having these crazy little paranoid acid trips. It paralyzed me artistically, personally and intellectually. It was self preservation. I am not saying you shouldn't some weed or drink, but for me, I wanted to entertain and continue making music. I wanted to be the best person I could be. One plus one equals two and I just quite doing that. This four record process is basically the chronology of my personal growth. For the first two years, I would pick up the guitar and could only play these shitty blues licks. I had so much invested in the old ways. It took me a couple of years to learn that it was myself responded honestly to the stimulus musically. I had to relearn and the process of relearning resulted in these four records. "Ki" represents a certain period of personal growth. "Ki" is here for the same reason that "Addicted!" is here. I was just trying to progress. I wish I could just pick up the guitar and go, but it isn't like that. What I do is always a direct correlation to my life. I am heading towards 40 and this is where I am at.

The Gauntlet: I am almost there. I am 34.

Devin: I hear you man. I remember when I was in my early twenties. I would wake up in the morning and put on Godflesh and Morbid Angel to set myself up for the day. If I hear metal before five in the evening it is hard for me. I really appreciate the lethartic nature of metal and it is definitely a big part of me. Your tastes change. That in a large part of why I quit Strapping Young Lad. A lot of people don't understand that. Look at Slayer, they are still doing it in their 50's. The way that I create is different than the way Slayer does. It is not better or worse, but in my own creative process, it is intrinsic to my own emotional development. I never made a choice to be a musician, it is just what I do. When life changes, you either resolve them or you get to a point in life that shit is too loud. My creative process reflects that. I say to a lot of people who were mourning Strapping Young Lad that what made it a great band was it was completely honest. There was no bullshit with it. By the time I got to the point where I could no longer do it without hurting myself in some bullshit martyrdom, I thought it would become a parody. What made it such a vital and creative force was going to become a parody. My creative output would be lost. I quit it but not until I finished the contract. I listened to "Alien" the other day and I loved it. I am happy with where I am now. Will that translate into becoming a big artist, probably not. I think the one thing people do appreciate about my music is that they know I am true to my music and continue to do so.

The Gauntlet: You mention that you kept SYL together for the contract, did you want to end it earlier?

Devin: Well, yeah. The album "City" was done the same way as "Addicted!" and "Ki". It was me in my bedroom making demos then I got the best people that I felt would represent the project. "City" was very much like a solo record. It was one of those things where the people were great to hang out with and a good live band but it ended up snowballing. My process now is lethargic. A lot of the things I needed to resolve at the time were resolved with "City". It took me several years to convince myself that it was an important thing to revisit. What I ended up discovering was the fact I was part of this cool crowd. I had cool people around and was touring with these cool bands. To have that was intoxicating for me. When I went back to Strapping, that was what it took for me to connect was thing that were in a lot of ways solved. So I needed to create drama in my life and the easiest way was through self destruction with booze and drugs and then writing about it. That is where that martyrdom thing began to click in. I had to ask myself who I was doing this for. Even that concept was explored through "Alien" and "The New Black". When I finally came to the conclusion, I solved this for me. At that resolution, there is no possible way I can continue. If I do, it would be a parody. The people that supported Strapping were not the fly-by-night fans. It would not only be a disservice to the music but to the people that get out there at the shows with the middle fingers and the 'fuck you!' When that started to come into my view, I realized it was time to move one and it was time to explore the next thing in my life. I am getting older, the body is starting to change, I lost my hair. Instead of being a parody of something I started when I was 25, I'd rather be honest. This four record project is in a lot of was a declaration of who I am currently and what I am going to do in the future.

The Gauntlet: You mention the hair.

Devin: I think a lot of what ended up happening for me was the honesty I talk about goes into interviews as well. I didn't do any drugs or drink until I was 24. At that point your reality is set and things are pretty much what they are. A lot of kids do acid at 12 or 15 and it becomes integrated into their emotional and spiritual growth. But if you are already settled and then introduce something like acid which is a whole different perception of reality, you end up reacting to it. It is like you are on a mission to represent these metaphors that are new and conflicting with a predisposition to reality. I did a bunch of acid at an age that a lot of people were already over it. Then I did interviews while I was high or after the fact and I just rambled on endlessly. You mix that in with the genetic predisposition or a weakness on some levels and you start gaining this reputation through the music or interviews as being crazy. If what you do for a living allows you to pay your bills and pay for your hydro is being a crazy guy, then let's fine tune that. Then the hair becomes a definition of that. Not only was the music kind of random and the interviews incoherent but the images I was portraying made me look like an unhinged person. When I finally started ridding the drugs from my system, I realized that I lot of that was a misappropriated verbal dialogue about something that I was either confused about or not very knowledgeable about. A lot of things I said were a result of this self inflicted paranoia. My first reaction was being embarrassed but I was accountable for it. Everything I have done in the past, I don't regret as it led me to be who I am. But I realized if you want people to take you seriously as an artist then the first thing to do is get rid of the hair. So I cut it off, but the thing that I am leading to is the project I did with Ziltoid: On the surface it is a coffee drinking alien puppet. A lot of people didn't get that. Interviews are important for me to clarify that though. Ziltoid was the projection of that attitude I wore in Strapping Young Lad; that quest for power, control and chaos. That whole element of what I represented. What I tried to do with Ziltoid was seperate it and objectify it with the character. After I do these four records, I will be doing a new Ziltoid record. I kept the hair. I have the dreads in a box and the new Ziltoid puppet will get that hair. In a lot of ways, it is a great artistic avenue for me to represent some things I am still very interested in but with a little more sober head space and how it is presented. If I present it as an exploration of concepts I am interested in, Ziltoid becomes an awesome avenue for me to do that with.

The Gauntlet: I always had a high hair line and by the time I hit 15, I shaved my head and people then thought I should be committed to an insane asylum, you cut yours off for the reverse effect.

Devin: I think that for me, I wasn't self-conscious about the hair. Honestly at that point of my life I was going bald. I looked like an ostrich egg wearing a skirt. More than trying to hide it I tried to accentuate it. I wanted to frame my baldness. My initial reason for going the hair was not to look like a freak. If you beat them to the punch to pointing out your bald spot then they have nothing to say. It was more of a defense mechanism than anything else. But I compounded it with the interviews and the music and everything else. I figure for me, artistically what I want to do with my world requires me to be clear with what my motivation is at this point. Anything that distracts the audience or leaves it open to some interpretation, I am trying to clear it up now.

The Gauntlet: Who coined the term 'skullet'.

Devin: Oh god, not me. Shit, definitely was not me. I actually don't remember in all honesty. Somebody used a new word and society started to glum onto it.


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Tags:  The Devin Townsend Project  , Devin Townsend, interviews

Jason Fisher    November 12, 2009